Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation
The Narutopedia reserves the right to remove any question that could be answered by reading the article. Second Mizukage Reason Why Kabuto revived the Second Mizukage instead of Third? Yagura is the Fourth, Mei is the Fifth . But Kabuto said he revived the predecessors of the current Kage. I'm confused :S. Could he have been revived by other reasons? [[User:Leodix|''Leodix]] (Talk | ) 05:00, March 1, 2011 (UTC) :The Second Mizukage is still a predecessor of the Fifth Mizukage. It's also down to whose DNA Kabuto acquire it's possible that he couldn't get any for the Third for whatever reason. --Cerez☺ (talk) 05:11, March 1, 2011 (UTC) :Why is the Second Mizukage the predecessor of the Fifth? The Third, as far as I know, wasn't mentioned yet. It may have a logical explanation why the Third isn't summoned, which may/may not be explained as the manga progresses since any guess would border to speculation. Darkerratum (talk) 05:17, March 1, 2011 (UTC) ::The Fourth was Yagura and Kabuto summoning him. Why Kabuto didn't use Yagura instead of Second? I do not see much logic. [[User:Leodix|Leodix]] (Talk | ) 05:23, March 1, 2011 (UTC) The best explanation I've come up with without speculation: Kabuto cannot find very old dead guy's (girl's?) DNA. ''' ~ Fmakck© → Talk → ~'' 05:26, March 1, 2011 (UTC) ^ And I'm talking the 3d by the way. '' ~ Fmakck© → Talk → ~'' 05:28, March 1, 2011 (UTC) @Leodix, Yagura is a special case, since he has a category for both jinchuuriki and kages. Since Yagura is in both, he was categorized as a jinchuuriki and his predecessor was revived for the Mizukage slot. It should have been the Third Mizukage, not the Second, unless there's a reason behind such. Many possibilities occur when this is put into question. @Fmakck Second Mizukage and the Second Tsuchikage are far older than the Third in my POV, since the Second passed the torch to the Third if we talk about succession, and yet the Second has been revived. We should wait for further developments to answer this I guess.Darkerratum (talk) 05:35, March 1, 2011 (UTC) If I remember correctly, the 3rd Mizukage is Tobi. From the encounter he had with Kisame a while back, Tobi revealed himself to Kisame, and the fellow Akatsuki comrade said something along the lines of, "So it was you all along, Mizukage-sama." So the order of Mizukages goes as follows: "No-Brows" is Nidaime, "Tobi" is Sandaime, Yagura is Yondaime, and Mei is Godaime. If Tobi isn't Sandaime, then that just leaves him as Shodaime - making him the ruler of another country at around the same time that Hashirama and Madara were around. It wouldn't make any sense.--Mizzcocoa214 (talk) 20:12, October 16, 2011 (UTC) :Tobi was controlling Yagura, thus why Kisame called Tobi Mizukage. Jacce | Talk | 20:15, October 16, 2011 (UTC) Status of the Edo Tenseis We should list the current status of the Edo Tenseis. Check the Akatsuki page for how it's done. For Shin and Sasori, they are Freed. For Haku, Zabuza, Ginkaku, and Kinkaku, they are Sealed. For Deidara, he is Captured. For the "6th coffin", it is Inactive. For all others, they are all Active. (talk) 17:12, March 2, 2011 (UTC) Have you read the page? This has been suggested already, and it's not worth it. Omnibender - Talk - 02:14, March 3, 2011 (UTC) I agree on the above , we should have the summoned status , it's generally a good idea for imformation--Futon-Kunai :I don't agree on the above - it seems pointless. '' ~ Fmakck© → Talk → ~'' 12:04, March 18, 2011 (UTC) I'm with Fma-kun and Omni-senpai.--'''NinjaSheik 20:55, March 18, 2011 (UTC) Its still a genuine idea , who actually created this wiki in the first place , maybe they could decide , or a vote maybe , its just a good idea to have--Futon-Kunai I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's not really useful, not really needed, can change often, not worth the required editing to update their status every time it changes. Omnibender - Talk - 23:36, March 18, 2011 (UTC) I don't see how their status changes frequently. Readers can instantly know who is active, sealed, or freed if we simply add a section. Asuma is sealed in the current chapter. From the progression of this manga, do you really expect him to get unsealed ever again? (talk) 15:42, April 6, 2011 (UTC) :Because it would be really difficult to unwrap him... :I, personally, am leaning towards implementing this. It will of course become pointless once everyone is "inactive", but it seems as though that won't be for a while. ''~SnapperT '' 21:46, April 6, 2011 (UTC) ::Might I point out that this article is about the technique and not about what happens to the victims of the technique? The status of the Edo Tensei summons is irrelevant to the technique itself and thus to the article. In fact, I already found the reasons for their summoning to be rather irrelevant. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 22:23, April 6, 2011 (UTC) :::what happens to them after they are summoned actually do matter because they are summoned as a result of this technique. If you disagree, then please tell me why you have to list out the names of each ET anyways, it's not like each of them matter to the technique itself as you said since there is no difference in the technique for summon each of them. (talk) 18:04, April 7, 2011 (UTC) ::::The Edo Tensei zombies are a direct result of this technique. The reason they were summoned is secondary. What happened to them afterwards is completely irrelevant. Imagine us listing for each and every animal summon exactly why they were summoned and what happened to them afterwards. It's ridiculous and cumbersome. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 22:52, April 7, 2011 (UTC) You also forgot about the Salamander King being sealed There's no evidence it was sealed after Mifune escaped through its head. There's no evidence that it's even a resurrected minion like the others. Omnibender - Talk - 22:31, April 12, 2011 (UTC) world Resurrection When a person uses this technique the people they bring back to life,are they conscious like do they know what they're doing.Also are they alive again forever? :Hmmm.. if only there was an article of some sort that has information on this technique.. Please read the actual article before asking questions that can be found in it. Also, sign your post with ~~~~. '' ~ Fmakck© '' (Images | ) 17:18, April 10, 2011 (UTC) 2 out of 5 kabuto tells orochimaru that he did well against the 3rd hokage, saying he even summoned 2 out of 5 shadows or something. i guess 2 is the 1st and the 2nd hokages. And Minato is the 3rd. i know minato could not be summoned, because of the death god. so i guess who was the other to kages. ( kage means shadow ). :I would assume he means two of the five Hokage. However, I'm not sure what chapter/page you're referring to. ''~SnapperT '' 00:42, May 19, 2011 (UTC) ::I couldn't find it and I just went through ¾ of the manga. If you can, please provide a reference. Though I think it would've been mentioned more by now if it were factual.--Cerez365™ 01:56, May 19, 2011 (UTC) he must mean the return of Itachi 2. When Itachi faces Kakashi, just a few pages before that battle starts. Unlimited Chakra Do those revived have an unlimited amount of chakra? Also, would techniques harming the body such as multi shadow clone technique or susanoo bring damage to the revived? :We don't know. Also, we don't know and we don't know.--Cerez365™ 12:17, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Pointlessness of the Impure World It would seem that another weakness of this technique has been exposed, or should at least be noted. The Third Raikage when addressing his fellow revived Kage, states that he has complete faith that the shinobi of the villages have surpassed them. Kakashi also says something similar to Kakuzu right before he dies. It should be mentioned that although the technique does have a near unlimited power in calling back the dead, the current generation of the naruto universe seems to have more power than the last, making the technique it own downfall 1. Sign your posts. 2. The fact that Mu said the new generation have surpassed them have nothing to with the technique. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:33, July 7, 2011 (UTC) :Well, I guess that is actually a point of the story - Naruto is all about the new generation surpassing the old one. I don't think it should be listed as a weakness of the technique itself, because technically it can be used to revive the younger ninjas, like Deidara who was a student of Ōnoki. --kiadony 10:38, July 7, 2011 (UTC) What he is implying is that back when the technique was first used, there was no way to stop it. Now if you look around since the fight between the Third and Orochi, there has been many, many ways developed and thought of to stop the use in it's tracks. But yes, also it is about the next gen passing the last, but has absolutely nothing to do a "weakness" in this technique. As Kabuto stated, there is no drawbacks. But in saying that, there could and they're yet to be seen. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:48, July 7, 2011 (UTC) There is one thing which bothers me. When Naruto hit Toroi with his Rasengan, Kabuto noticed it, more than any previous attack used on other zombies. Somehow, it seems that Rasengan has some sort of effect on Impure World Ressurection. Or that Kabuto noticed something was meant to be something different, the time will tells. but if it doesnt, there is maybe one weakness of this technique, in Rasengan, but that is a mere speculation. VolteMetalic (talk) 23:17, July 8, 2011 (UTC) I think that Kabuto was just surprised he was taken out so fast. Either that, or his awareness of the resurrected shinobi surroundings enabled him to detect Naruto's Nine-Tails chakra. Omnibender - Talk - 23:41, July 8, 2011 (UTC) Prehaps Kabuto was surprised to see Narutos new form and felt that with his new power, he'd be a threat to taking out the resurrected. As he noticed it more then others, because it was Naruto who attacked. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 06:01, July 9, 2011 (UTC) Haku's eyes The articel says that "The summoned all have black sclera and white irides", but shouldnt it be noted somewhere that Haku's eyes actually has grey clera and black irides up until the point where Kabutu takes complete control(See chapter 521 and 522). Don't know if he is the only one, but he is the only one where i have actually noticed it. --Cosmikaze (talk) 23:00, July 8, 2011 (UTC) :Since nobody had anything to say, i went ahead and added it. Feel free to invert my changes if they somehow is inapropiate or wrong, but if you do, please tell me why. --Cosmikaze (talk) 22:31, July 15, 2011 (UTC) ::From what I've seen they all keep their eye colours until Kabuto takes full control of them, not just Haku.--Cerez365™ 22:49, July 15, 2011 (UTC) ::: While you might be right, try and take a look at http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/521/12 and http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/525/2 just two examples, and maybe you are able to find some proof for your theory, but in these pictures all the summoned has black(grey)sclera and white irides, witht he sole exception af haku (okay in the second page i posted hakus eyes does acutally look white, but maybe they are just closed for some reason or something, i dont know, but in all other apperences by him until the point where his personality is erased his eyes are clearly not white (see http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/521/13 as an example). im not saying he is the only one, just that he is the only one i have noticed (maybe besides dojutsu users) who doesnt have black and white eyes --Cosmikaze (talk) 23:08, July 15, 2011 (UTC) :Eye colors vary, check the voloume 55 cover.--''Deva '' 23:11, July 15, 2011 (UTC) :: Fair enough, thanks for the color image.--Cosmikaze (talk) 23:15, July 15, 2011 (UTC) :::this as well normally they're depicted with the lines in their sclera and when Kabuto takes over, it goes pitch black.--Cerez365™ 23:15, July 15, 2011 (UTC) ::::Ye i noticed the lines/grey> pitch black thing, but since that was the same for everyone that was besides the point i was trying to make :) but seeing those color pages have me convinced, it just seemed strange to me that haku was different, but seeing the color pages helped a lot :)--Cosmikaze (talk) 23:21, July 15, 2011 (UTC) No risk to the user. Does this technique take any chakra? (talk) 10:37, July 14, 2011 (UTC)(random) :Yes.--Cerez365™ 11:11, July 14, 2011 (UTC) If it does it still poses a risk to the user if the user has insufficient chakra ::He means no repercussions after using his chakra for the resurrection part, controlling the and whatever comes after that probably takes very little chakra and has no ill effects on the user after extended use.--Cerez365™ 11:25, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Tobirama Senju Kabuto is listed as a manga user of this technique. The case of Tobirama is almost the same because it has been mentioned only in the manga that he created (and certainly used) the Edo Tensei. Consequently, next to Tobirama Senju somebody has to add "manga only". Unless im wrong because i havent watched the last anime chapters. BTW, im latinoamerican so maybe i have some writting mistakes XD. (talk) 15:11, July 18, 2011 (UTC) :That's not how it works, he's never been and will probably never be seen using the technique. In this instance he is simply listed as a user of the technique with no manga/ anime implications.--Cerez365™ 15:22, July 18, 2011 (UTC) afterlife ? Haku and Zabuza died ... after got revived, they commented that this look nothing like afterlife. This mean that it seemed like a seconds from their death to their revival. But ... arent the souls meant to be in other world after death ? How is it they dont remember them being dead in heaven/hell or wherever ? Maybe because other world/afterlife dont exist ? So where are the souls then ? ...--Elveonora (talk) 23:14, October 8, 2011 (UTC) :Maybe the Pure Land isn't somewhere you exists consciously. Maybe they don't have the memories from the other world in this world. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 23:38, October 8, 2011 (UTC) I see ... Kishi is such a good writer O_O That trick with Madara got me.--Elveonora (talk) 15:22, October 12, 2011 (UTC) Preparatory Ritual Doesn't this create a plot hole? As is mentioned in the trivia, Orochimaru's attempting to bind Minato to his sacrifice body would have failed in the prep. ritual, Minato wouldn't have "caked over" the sacrifice (not sure of a better term to describe the demonstration with Fu and Torune), nothing should have happened at all, so why bother trying to summon it later if there was nothing to summon? On top of this, why would a coffin have come out at all based on that? Another thing worth mentioning is that it had the '4' on it like the 4th was actually in there (though the 4 was only shown in the anime so presumably can't be taken as 100% canon). (talk) 00:01, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :The coffin never emerges in the manga, though Orochimaru notes that the summon failed. Who says the soul can't be bound to the sacrifice when the coffin is summoned?--''Deva '' 00:10, October 18, 2011 (UTC) ::Kabuto's explanation of why the 4th couldn't be summoned because his soul was unreachable was very clear. His demonstration following the explanation also shows exactly what you have to do beforehand. Based on what he says, the 4th wouldn't have taken over the sacrifice because his soul couldn't be anchored to the impure world in any way/shape/form, ergo it wouldn't/couldn't be bound to the sacrifice at any point. (talk) 00:16, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :::It's only a plot-hole if the soul can't indeed be bound at the same time the coffin is brought up. Omnibender - Talk - 00:23, October 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::Actually, Deva was right about the coffin not appearing at all in the manga, so the coffin isn't even really the issue, the question lies in why Orochimaru attempted to summon it at all during his fight with the third (and made note of its failure, meaning he thought it would work) when in the preparatory ritual Minato's soul would not have overtaken the sacrifice or even responded to the summon (during the prep. ritual), since, as Kabuto said, was entirely unreachable to the technique. Either way this still creates a plot hole. (talk) 00:33, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :::::The only possible explanation, the only possible loop-hole for this not to be a plot-hole, is that it's possible to tie the soul to the sacrifice and make the summon all at once. If the first fails, so does the second. It's the only explanation which doesn't create a plot-hole. Maybe Kabuto showed things a bit more clearly so Tobi (and the readers) could understand how the technique works. Omnibender - Talk - 00:38, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :::::: Kabuto said, "If the soul does not reside in the pure world, they cannot be resurrected". I would say that means there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, so I think, based on everything we know, it is indeed a plot hole. I've seen many arguments/discussions about this very topic across the internet, and until Kishimoto retcons/explains it in the manga, or naruto ends, we can't really say either way. Again though, based on the facts we've been given, it is indeed a plot-hole for the time being. Jetdeagon (talk) 00:50, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :::::::And none of that invalidates the notion that it might be possible to sequentially bind the soul and summon it, which would resolve the situation without creating a plot hole. It's just a matter of finding loop-holes and exploiting them. Omnibender - Talk - 00:56, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :::::::: Yes, but in the manga itself it has been stated that souls not in the pure world cannot be resurrected. It came out of the users' mouth, and immediately afterward we saw exactly how the ritual of preparation plays out. As I said, until any loophole is brought up or exploited in the manga, it can't be taken as fact to explain away a plot hole. Jetdeagon (talk) 01:02, October 18, 2011 (UTC) Maybe Orochimaru has used a different Preparatory Ritual. Seal is formed around the sacrifice, and the wished to summon one's blood/dna is applied to the seal thus changing the body of the sacrifice into the summoned one's. Whos to say they are alive right away ? Maybe Kabuto just bond the soul with a body right away and Orochimaru not. So Orochimaru has most likely prepared Minato's body in the coffin but not yet blew a life into him. So when Orochimaru was about to summon Minato, the coffin failed because the soul was not available.--Elveonora (talk) 17:16, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :A simple explanation without a plot hole could be that he tried to revive Minato and failed due to him being sealed and resorted to using the Fourth Kazekage. His soul was never sealed so there's no reason Kabuto couldn't have used him as he did. This is all speculation but it may help some of you sleep at night :). Arrancar79 (talk) 21:39, October 28, 2011 (UTC) That doesn't make since at all since the coffin failed period and since Kabuto was able to summon the 4th Kaze clearly his soul was available for the binding. Maybe guess as stated above that Oro tried the prep and summon at the same time.Umishiru (talk) 05:42, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Blackmail Coffin So was the Blackmail coffin used by Kabuto to force Tobi to take the deal with the alliance, Madara after all? Was it a different shinobi? I never got the chance to read the manga chapters so please dont make me feel stupid. So yea, if it was Madara in the coffin than who is the supposed madara leading akatsuki? :Yes, it was Madara, we have no idea who Tobi is. Omnibender - Talk - 22:46, October 18, 2011 (UTC) Who is... ...this? Seelentau 愛議 22:04, October 25, 2011 (UTC) :Dunno. He/She's there by accident. They were removed in the tankōbon version.--Cerez365™ 22:07, October 25, 2011 (UTC) ::ah, I see. Worth mentioned it, maybe? Anyway, thanks :) Seelentau 愛議 22:14, October 25, 2011 (UTC) :::It's supposed to be in the Manga/Anime differences article and somewhere else I think. Omnibender brought it up already and I think we followed through with it and all.--Cerez365™ 22:18, October 25, 2011 (UTC) ::::mhkay, I don't want to discuss about such small fry, so I'll leave it as it is^^ Seelentau 愛議 22:19, October 25, 2011 (UTC) Why Not Display Each Shinobi's Status? Moments ago, I was going to suggest adding a "Status" column to the list of revived ninja (e.g. Purified, Sealed, Incapacitated, Active); however as I was going to copy the source code to show off a couple of examples, I saw the hidden message "Do NOT add a status column". Why can't we show their statuses? SuperSaiyanSonic (talk) 21:10, October 28, 2011 (UTC) :Status of the Edo Tenseis--Cerez365™ 21:14, October 28, 2011 (UTC) edo is the "edo" in this technique related in any way to the old name for tokyo, also "edo", or is it different? --Caseather (talk) 21:08, November 20, 2011 (UTC) :Read /Archive 1#Name. Omnibender - Talk - 21:31, November 20, 2011 (UTC) Imperfections The Fox King has pulled up that in part I the resurrected lose their imperfections after being affected by the talisman but in part II, they still have them. Should we add somewhere that in part II they still have the imperfections, even after being completely controlled by Kabuto(like how Mu was)? Joshbl56 02:54, December 5, 2011 (UTC) Control I have a question, does Kabuto control the Edo Tensei's himself or does he simply 'program' them to move as 'instructed'? (talk) 16:04, December 12, 2011 (UTC) :He can control them himself, as seen with the Raikage, Mu, and Nagato.--''Deva '' 16:06, December 12, 2011 (UTC) ::When their eyes go completely black he's controlling them himself otherwise they're 'instructed'.--Cerez365™ 16:07, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Another question, are their senses connected to his own? (talk) 16:11, December 12, 2011 (UTC) :Senses? Everything we know is in the article friend. Though as far as senses go I'm assuming he can hear and see what they do, from his reactions/conversations and so on.--Cerez365™ 16:16, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Who's controlling the Jinchuriki, Kabuto or Madara? (talk) 16:21, December 12, 2011 (UTC) They are most likely still under Kabuto's Edo Tensei, but Tobi took control of them using the chakra rods. --Elveonora (talk) 16:25, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Okay I'm done, thanks for answering my answers all of you (talk) 16:26, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Should we add that Chakra receivers can shift control then? Also I can't help but notice the control seems to end when a jinchuriki fully transformed. --1337 B33FC4K3 (talk) 05:02, January 11, 2012 (UTC) I don't think the control ends once the Jinchuriki have transformed. It may just be harder to control as there is more power to control. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 05:46, January 11, 2012 (UTC) Samehada O.o? Does anyone know what that statement's supposed to mean, because I'm drawing a blank.--Cerez365™ 20:35, March 1, 2012 (UTC) :I think it's meant to mean that a resurrected shinobi gains back all their abilities and such they had before dying, but any unique blades like the Seven Ninja Swords do not get resurrected. That's my interpretation of it. --speysider (talk) 20:43, March 1, 2012 (UTC) ::That was my interpretation of the statement as well but, while I believe the section about unique weapons should be retained yet exchanged with "such as the blades of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen of the Mist", I don't think the latter part is necessary as I believe there is nothing to indicate that tools such as kunai are obtained through the technique rather than normal means. Blackstar1 (talk) 20:53, March 1, 2012 (UTC)